Hairdryer of Reason

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Hairdryer of Reason
Topic Started: Jul 22 2009, 12:07 PM (262 Views)
Wintermute	Jul 22 2009, 12:07 PM Post #1
Administrator Posts: 333 Group: Admins Member #1 Joined: Apr 4, 2009	http://www.usatoday.com/news/religion/2009-07-21-atheists-debaptism_N.htm ITT: Discuss



Khatib	Jul 22 2009, 03:27 PM Post #2
You so CRAAZZYY!! Posts: 184 Group: Members Member #7 Joined: Apr 14, 2009	I gotta go with the guy who says it feels intrinsically negative and immature. One of the best things about being an Atheist is not ramming my beliefs down random people's throats. That doesnt' mean if someone brings shit up I'm not going to talk them into the ground on it, but something like this whole gig just feels a little pointless and gives one more thing for fundie right wingers to point at Atheists and somehow try to label them as pagans with anti-Christian rituals or some other bullshit that doesn't truly apply to any of it.
	I still hate Brett Favre.


Voyevoda	Jul 22 2009, 07:28 PM Post #3
RIP to the king of pop Posts: 399 Group: Members Member #8 Joined: Apr 14, 2009	/sigh U all know George Carlin hated atheist right. Edited by Voyevoda, Jul 22 2009, 07:28 PM.



Lucretius	Jul 23 2009, 12:07 AM Post #4
Posts: 173 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Apr 13, 2009	Khatib Jul 22 2009, 03:27 PM I gotta go with the guy who says it feels intrinsically negative and immature. One of the best things about being an Atheist is not ramming my beliefs down random people's throats. That doesnt' mean if someone brings shit up I'm not going to talk them into the ground on it, but something like this whole gig just feels a little pointless and gives one more thing for fundie right wingers to point at Atheists and somehow try to label them as pagans with anti-Christian rituals or some other bullshit that doesn't truly apply to any of it. mmmkay so "Private ceremonies at private convensions" = "shoving it down someone's throat" Gotcha. Also, you read the comments? Quote: U all know George Carlin hated atheist right. ...and while I'm a huge fan of George Carlin, he (like many) never grasped that Atheism isn't a positive belief. Instead he incorrectly viewed it as a position that makes 100% positive knowledge claims about things people can't know. Edited by Lucretius, Jul 23 2009, 12:09 AM.
Posts: 173 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Apr 13, 2009


Liloqui	Jul 23 2009, 01:30 AM Post #5
Posts: 170 Group: Members Member #19 Joined: Apr 25, 2009	Lucretius Jul 23 2009, 12:07 AM mmmkay so "Private ceremonies at private convensions" = "shoving it down someone's throat" Gotcha. They had to know such an act would get some kind of publicity, I refuse to believe they were that naive. It's a slap in the face for what most people call sacred and thus will get attention.
	I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person


Casino	Jul 23 2009, 08:44 AM Post #6
Posts: 215 Group: Members Member #17 Joined: Apr 21, 2009	I think this is awesome, being baptized as Methodist I wouldn't mind doing a fun "atheist baptism" as a big middle figure.



Lucretius	Jul 24 2009, 03:21 AM Post #7
Posts: 173 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Apr 13, 2009	Liloqui Jul 23 2009, 01:30 AM They had to know such an act would get some kind of publicity, I refuse to believe they were that naive. It's a slap in the face for what most people call sacred and thus will get attention. Oh no, publicity and making fun of other people. Who would dare do such a thing? How dare they...
Posts: 173 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Apr 13, 2009


Liloqui	Jul 24 2009, 03:43 PM Post #8
Posts: 170 Group: Members Member #19 Joined: Apr 25, 2009	Lucretius Jul 24 2009, 03:21 AM Liloqui Jul 23 2009, 01:30 AM They had to know such an act would get some kind of publicity, I refuse to believe they were that naive. It's a slap in the face for what most people call sacred and thus will get attention. Oh no, publicity and making fun of other people. Who would dare do such a thing? How dare they... But that wasn't your initial argument. Anytime a group of people you could call radicals takes up a crusade by mocking the status quo, its bound to produce criticism. This is not to say they don't have a right to said crticism, no one is denying that. But how much does it really help their cause? A movement like Atheism should be championed by intellectual, rational changes instead of ones that could be construed as demeaning.
	I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person


Lucretius	Jul 25 2009, 12:25 AM Post #9
Posts: 173 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Apr 13, 2009	Liloqui Jul 24 2009, 03:43 PM Lucretius Jul 24 2009, 03:21 AM Quoting limited to 2 levels deep But that wasn't your initial argument. Anytime a group of people you could call radicals takes up a crusade by mocking the status quo, its bound to produce criticism. This is not to say they don't have a right to said criticism, no one is denying that. But how much does it really help their cause? A movement like Atheism should be championed by intellectual, rational changes instead of ones that could be construed as demeaning. Sorry, but the cynic in me has to call bullshit on how impractically idealistic you're being. In reality, any press is good press and any underscoring of the knowledge "ATHEISM EXISTS" is enough to make that true, because the majority of shitty parents shelter their kids with religion. As Marilyn Manson points out... (lol, popped in my head) Quote: Nothing suffocates you more than The passing of everyday human events Isolation is the oxygen mask you make Your children breathe in to survive ...and any scrap of exposure they can get to something else is a positive thing. So yes, a youth might ask himself "I wonder why those people would want to use an elaborate ceremony or demonstration to reverse the baptism." Young people are drawn to rebellion at some point in their youth, and this provides them a point of curiosity to investigate and a potential outlet for that rebellion WHICH CAN LEAD to more intellectual cultivation, but if you're fishing to use intellect as the carrot on a stick to entice people you're missing the target market entirely. The real way to kill religion is not through argument with peers, but through appeals to the next generations. Also, my "argument" was that SO FUCKING WHAT if "they knew it would stir up shit" they're free to stir as much non-violent shit up as they like... and I hope it gets under the skin of every fundamentalist in the region, pisses them off, and ruins their day. Conforming to cultural taboos that say "religion is a sensitive subject better leave that alone" is a concession on the part of reason because only through the restriction of communication through things like taboos can the ignorant ideas contained in religions persist. Also, niggers. Edited by Lucretius, Jul 25 2009, 12:27 AM.
Posts: 173 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Apr 13, 2009


Lucretius	Jul 25 2009, 12:32 AM Post #10
Posts: 173 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Apr 13, 2009	Also, there is nothing wrong with ceremonies. Ceremony itself is just a way of attaching significance to an event in ones life, it has nothing to do with attaching ignorant ideas to the event. De-Baptism for some could be a psychological demarcation point that brings finality to that chapter in their lives... after having worked very hard to overcome religion. For most, including myself, religion was difficult to overcome. Many people, even though they profess themselves as atheists, struggle with religious leanings and ceremonies like this one could benefit them in moving on. fuck what this guy thinks from the article... Quote: Secularist Phil Zuckerman, a Pitzer College sociologist who studies apostates, said he would never take part in such an event because it "feels intrinsically negative" and "immature." Fact is, most Christians view atheists as being childishly rebellious, and I think Dr Faggot in the above quote BUYS INTO that viewpoint of Atheists. This to me seems the only way to achieve the viewpoint of this as being a childish stunt. Politically, its no different than burning the flag. It's a defining freedom of an American citizen. If the UN wants to try passing "anti blasphemy laws" they get to tolerate protests in this form. Edited by Lucretius, Jul 25 2009, 12:37 AM.
Posts: 173 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Apr 13, 2009


Khatib	Jul 27 2009, 06:30 AM Post #11
You so CRAAZZYY!! Posts: 184 Group: Members Member #7 Joined: Apr 14, 2009	Really? The only way to view blowing someone with a hairdryer 20 or 30 years after they were doused with holy water to dry off said holy water as being childish is to have that view already? This hairdryer of reason shit is childish. That's why it's stupid. That's why it casts a negative light on something already viewed as negative by the majority of Americans, and that's why it's a bad and pointless thing to do, and most importantly to trumpet.
	I still hate Brett Favre.


Lucretius	Jul 27 2009, 11:47 PM Post #12
Posts: 173 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Apr 13, 2009	Point 1) Who the fuck cares if it makes Atheists look "negative" in the eyes of most brain dead Americans... they aren't the target market. If it pisses them off, great! Fuck em! That's a great selling point. FYI, in case you've been under a rock, Atheists are the least trusted and most despised minority in the country WITHOUT having to work on their already shitty P.R. IOW... there's really only one way to go from the bottom. Point 2) A blow dryer is no more ridiculous or "stupid" that any of the other ignorant cultural shit related to religion that goes on in America regularly... like Christmas for example! ...and the entire host of bullshit fables attached to that lie which lead to tons of bullshit rituals. Thanksgiving is another good bullshit holiday filled with bullshit rituals based on bullshit history. Why not have a little fun with something new and symbolically undo the child abuse your parents subjected you to by removing the baptism from your past with a magical dryer!? Hey... its so fucking nuts it might work... it is America! You can have some laughs, a little fun, and get some attention... and when you're at the bottom of the social ladder in terms of religious non-belief, Hey! ...any press is good press. Question: Why so up tight about people making asses out of themselves? Surely you're not delusional enough to believe the only method of advocating the spread of reason can come through well reasoned arguments?
Posts: 173 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Apr 13, 2009


Ninjerk	Jul 28 2009, 01:12 AM Post #13
Posts: 159 Group: Members Member #13 Joined: Apr 20, 2009	Lucretius Jul 27 2009, 11:47 PM Question: Why so up tight about people making asses out of themselves? Surely you're not delusional enough to believe the only method of advocating the spread of reason can come through well reasoned arguments? Well reasoned arguments aren't even effective.



Liloqui	Jul 28 2009, 03:13 PM Post #14
Posts: 170 Group: Members Member #19 Joined: Apr 25, 2009	Ninjerk Jul 28 2009, 01:12 AM Lucretius Jul 27 2009, 11:47 PM Question: Why so up tight about people making asses out of themselves? Surely you're not delusional enough to believe the only method of advocating the spread of reason can come through well reasoned arguments? Does that mean you shouldn't try? Acting immature will only give more fuel to the fire others have against you, and bring you down to their level. Sure they whine and get angry and say stupid things when you prove them wrong with sheer reason and logic. But then what do they have against you? If you are rational about the argument, they CAN'T have anything to throw back at you, and your argument is the only thing left standing. On the other hand if you're a condescending dick about it, more people will be likely to write you off as just being a jerk and not listen to what you have to say. This isn't a vision of idealogical human interaction, this is how things are done for results. For example, people conduct themselves professionally at work for a reason. If being a shithead always got your point across, your boss would call you a cocksucking faggot and make fun of your love handles to get you to do your job better.
	I refuse to have a battle of wits with an unarmed person


Lucretius	Jul 28 2009, 11:54 PM Post #15
Posts: 173 Group: Members Member #4 Joined: Apr 13, 2009	Ninjerk Jul 28 2009, 01:12 AM Well reasoned arguments aren't even effective. Of course that was the point I was making. Quote: this is how things are done for results. I think this is either dishonest or inexperience. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and say that I don't think you have a clue. The only "result" I've ever gotten from well reasoned arguments with faith heads of any sort has been first and foremost Intellectual Dishonesty (they really have no problem being complete liars with themselves and you to "win" an argument with any Atheist because they view their mission in the encounter to be something of a test from god, it has nothing to do with truth seeking), ignorant red herrings, ad homs, strawman arguments, and parroted bullshit their pastors have told them to repeat, along with a dozen other fallacies that those without training in logic or critical thinking engage in. Whats more, most of them cannot emotionally detach themselves from the issue long enough to have a civil conversation with you about it. Bottom line is, you approach a godhead with reason/logic/facts/etc... alone, and you're speaking another language to them. Your motivations for being in the exchange are fundamentally and irreconcilably different. When presented with the choice of Faith vs. Facts, they are ultimately not interested in the genuine human pursuit of knowledge and truth. ...but, if you enjoy that type of frustration one of the benefits I'll happily report is that you become very well versed in all of the different variations and fronts of the argument. Having tried different angles over the years to find the most effective ways of dismantling the arguments... the most uncontrollable part of the discussion is getting the godhead to be honest with himself. They won't do it, and the ones that will... were already borderline Agnostics when you met them... and would have moved in that direction over time even without ever meeting you. The need then arises to learn psychological techniques to help the individual break down internal barriers preventing him/her from actually confronting reality as it is, and for most people a lifetime of therapy wouldn't be enough. Conclusion: Expecting to engage in a rational exchange of ideas with an anti-intellectual faith head is an irrational expectation. Reality doesn't work like that. Edited by Lucretius, Jul 28 2009, 11:54 PM.
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